Saturday, August 2, 2008

Debate Sparked :)

Jewelianna said...
Bruce R McConkie says in 'Mormon Doctrine' -There is no prohibition in Section 89, for instance, as to the eating of white bread, using white flour, white sugar, cocoa, chocolate, eggs, milk, meat, or anything else, except items classified under the headings, tea, coffee, tobacco, and liquor. As a matter of fact those who command that men should not eat meat, are not ordained of God, such counsel being listed by Paul as an evidence of apostasy. God has created "meats," he says, "to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth." (1 Tim 4:3.)If some particular food or drink disagrees with an individual, then that person should act accordingly without reference to the prohibitions in this particular law of health. (for more of her comment go to the comment section of the previous post)

Bruce R McConkie's book is his opinion and his opinion only. It is not doctrine.

The Lord says in section 89, "And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine." This makes it clear to me that Heavenly Father does not want me to eat animals except for in the dire times that he lists.

The second scripture I see misunderstood is Section 49 Verse 18. It reads, "And whoso forbiddeth to abstain from meats, that man should not eat the same, is not ordained of God;" This scripture is often offered up to me as evidence that I am actually wrong for not eating animals. The words are tricky in this verse and I will try my best to get the true meaning across. First it says, "And whoso forbiddeth" So that is referring to the person doing the forbidding. "to abstain from meats." a person who abstains from meat would be me, a vegetarian. So that first part is actually saying, Whoever forbids a person from being a vegetarian. If you know your grammar you now that the commas separating "That man should not eat the same" from the rest of the sentence mean that the sentence was interjected and should be able to be read clearly with or with out the interjection. So, With out the interjection the scripture reads, "And whoso forbiddeth to abstain from meats is not ordained of God." So if some one were telling another person "you need to eat meat", they would not be ordained of God. Now put the interjection back in "that man should not eat the same" That part is speaking about the forbidder. It's saying that not only is forbidding a man not to eat meat not ordained of God but the forbidder should not eat meat either. If you can explain this scripture in a different way I would love to hear it! Or section 89 as well.

I Just want to add that I know the Church of Jesus Christ is true and I know that The prophet is a true prophet and so were the ones that passed before him. I also know that just like me they are not perfect and they do make mistakes. I love this Gospel and I love the people of this church. I am so grateful to be part of two wonderful families with people who care so much about me and my little family.

Thanks Julie for your comments, I really appreciate your open mind and your kind heart!

1 comment:

Jewelianna said...

Wow, initially I felt the need to help defend your choice to not eat meat. And now I'm defending the choice TO eat meat. I understand both to be good.

I know that the book 'Mormon Doctrine' has a disclaimer saying that the views are solely the author's and that it is not necessarily the church's official stance. However, that being said, I think it is important to remember that the author was an Apostle of God, a mouth piece of the Lord. How far off would his opinion be in regards to church doctrine?

Another thing that puzzles me is, if your interpretation of D&C 49:18 is correct and it is truly teaching vegetarianism, why wouldn't the whole church be taught to live it? Why don't we learn about it at general conference? Where is the Prophetic counsel to not eat meat? Even if it's a higher law that we're not expected to live yet, like the law of consecration, wouldn't we still know about it - just like we know about the law of consecration?

I do not think it is wrong to eat a vegetarian diet.You will never hear from me that you should eat meat.

However, and forgive me, but I do feel that you err in your interpretation of the scripture, if I am correct in understanding that you said that it is saying vegetarianism is doctrine. I think it only says that it is not ordained of God to forbid abstinence from meat. "And whoso forbiddeth to abstain from meats, that man should not eat the same, is not ordained of God;"
This interjection of 'that man should not eat the same' offers the meaning of 'abstain from meats.' So in reality, this interjection could take the place of 'to abstain from meats' if you substitute 'meats' in for 'the same.' So something like this:
And whoso forbiddeth that man should not eat meats, is not ordained of God.
I think this is more applicable to things like the Atkins diet. It's how to know if something is approved by God. The Atkins diet based it's success on meat consumption while restricting the grains that the WoW states should be the foundation of our diet. The Atkins diet would forbid you to not eat meat. So we know it is not ordained of God.

I do not believe that we are commanded either way. God does not command us to eat meat, and He also does not command us to not eat meat, only that we partake sparingly, and not be wasteful, and do so with gratitude, and suggesting it be restricted to winter or times of famine as guidelines.

D&C 59:16-20 says:
Verily I say, that inasmuch as ye do this, the fulness of the earth is yours, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and that which climbeth upon the trees and walketh upon the earth; Yea, and the herb, and the good things which come of the earth, whether for food or for raiment, or for houses, or for barns, or for orchards, or for gardens, or for vineyards; Yea, all things which come of the earth, in the season thereof, are made for the benefit and the use of man, both to please the eye and to gladden the heart; Yea, for food and for raiment, for taste and for smell, to strengthen the body and to enliven the soul. And it pleaseth God that he hath given all these things unto man; for unto this end were they made to be used, with judgment, not to excess, neither by extortion.

It pleases God to provide these things to us, including the use of animals for food.

And just as a final note -
Paul says in Romans 14:17:
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.